With Leon Clingman, Kelsey Egan, Marian Frizelle, Michael Kirch. Renette Henrico, assistant manager at the Aan de Oever Guest House, said: They were really relaxed, in the holiday vibe., By
Filmed with DJI Mavic Pro drone. Or, for that matter, his equally attractive "marine biologist" pal Madelyn Joubert, who joins him halfway through the show, and whom a cursory web search easily demonstrates not to exist? All of a sudden we just hear this shrill scream. All rights reserved. The two Americans and one Norwegian were pronounced dead at the scene, said the head of the Great White Shark Protection Foundation, Mariette Hopley. With a surge of adrenaline Brad managed to pull himself in and, moments later desperation turned to joy as he spotted a Russian cargo ship on the horizon. Scaling-Kiley recalled: "It was by far the most horrifying moment of my entire life. The 10 passengers and nine crew members onboard were flung into the water when the boat capsized under the wave. The motorised boat, called the Miroshga, capsized three miles out to sea as it carried tourists from the fishing port of Hout Bay to Duiker Island, known for its large seal colony. There is still debate about what they might be. There were no sharks immediately in the vicinity at the time, Hopley said, because boat operators had not started "chumming," a method of attracting sharks by putting a mixture of blood and fish remains in the water. None., David Kerstetter, an assistant professor at the Nova Southeastern University Oceanographic Center in Dania Beach, Florida, whose current work includes reducing shark bycatch in fisheries, had a similar response. As the death toll climbed to 62 on Monday, migrants who survived the crash of a human smuggling boat off the coast of southern Italy on Sunday told of the loss and horror they endured when their . This may include adverts from us and 3rd parties based on our understanding. They should be respected and protected. Shark Attacks: The Database . Incidents by country; Links; Shark Attack Data. Sue had beaten breast cancer just a few years ago and they were making the most of his retirement and the time they had together. We use your sign-up to provide content in ways you've consented to and to improve our understanding of you. But he said the two women had somehow become trapped when the boat flipped and had found an air pocket which they were using to breathe, Mr Lambinon said. Nearby boats rescued 16 people who were taken to a hospital with minor injuries, officials said. Despite Deborah and Brad's attempts to bring him back to reality, he too plunged into the shark infested waters. Mr Hyett was taken to shore, where he was pronounced dead. When that failed, the sharks began to ram the tiny boat in a bid to topple them out. "They had searched most of the boat and found nothing. Hopley said the boat had just anchored around 10 a.m. and was preparing to lower the first cage into the water when the freak wave hit. Click to reveal Naledi Pandor defended the country's decision, with the foreign minister saying: "All countries conduct military exercises with friends worldwide. Collin Drake? (Not). South African president Cyril Ramaphosa has pushed for negotiations in official calls with Russian President Vladimir Putin and even offered to mediate a peaceful resolution to the conflict. One of her crew mates, Meg, slashed her leg in the struggle - turning the group into a magnet for great white sharks - who came from all around when they detected blood in the water. Turn on desktop notifications for breaking news? south africa boat capsized shark attack. Powered and implemented by FactSet Digital Solutions. This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. Heres what I dont get, Discovery: Megalodons were real, incredible, fascinating sharks. By Jamie Pyatt in Cape Town 26 September 2022 5:45pm Kimon Bisogno, 39, was killed in a shark attack in South Africa's Plettenberg Bay A tourist was killed by a great white shark as she. The pair jumped into the water and were winched on board the ship. 05:44 EST 15 Oct 2012. One of the sharks grabbed the rope on the front of the boat and started pulling it along in the water taking the crew on a terrifying joy ride. No fishing vessel went mysteriously missing off of South Africa in April. There was no doubt what got him. Over the next five days, three of the crew were eaten by sharks as Deborah and fellow survivor Brad watched on in horror. 05:51 EST 14 Oct 2012 ", While meeting her Russian counterpart Sergey Lavrov, she added: "There should be no compulsion on any country that it should conduct them with any other partners.". Watch a Great White Shark Attack a Boat Full of Tourists (and Then Stay Away From the Ocean Forever) Rainer Schimpf captured the footage of a shark biting a rubber boat off the coast of. Sky was overcast but the ocean was very smooth. One of the passengers, Peter Hyett, 64, of the United Kingdom, was unconscious and could not be revived. A popular tourist excursion near Cape Town, South Africa, turned into a horrifying experience for dozens of people when their boat capsized in chilly, shark-infested water. Police divers gave them breathing equipment and emergency scuba training before persuading them to remove their life jackets so they could swim down and clear of the 36ft hull. For days, the party floated on a life raft in the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of North Carolina, without food, water, or emergency equipment, The Sun reported. Photo: Marine Dynamics/Dyer Island Conservation Trust. Major Russian ammunition store blown up by Ukraine, China in no position to change Putins mind as peace talks begin, South Africa's decision to allow a Russian navy dock off South Africa has sparked a backlash, Russian warships docked off the port of Durban, South Africa, for ten days of joint military drill, South Africa, Russia and China conducted joint military drills in the last week of February, South Africa's Foreign Minister Naledi Pandor held talks with her Russian counterpart, Wizz Air halts flights to Moldova over fears it's Putin's next target, China spending billions on spreading pro-Russian lies, US claims, Naledi Pandor said: 'All countries conduct military exercises with friends worldwide. Before long John was hallucinating. If the sharks came back, he was dead.. Incidents by country; Links; Shark Attack Data. 1995 - 2023 by Snopes Media Group Inc. CAPE TOWN, South Africa Two Americans and one Norwegian tourist on a South African shark cage diving adventure drowned Sunday when their boat was hit by a freak wave, tourism and rescue officials said. It looked like a nightmare. "There's about as much scientific controversy about the possibility of Megalodons lurking in todays oceans as there is about mermaids. Also, check out more great wild animal clips, information, and MaxAnimal stuff at our YouTube Channel:www.youtube.com/maxxanimalSite:http://MaxAnimal.comFacebook:https://www.facebook.com/maxsocialanimalTwitter:https://twitter.com/MaxSocialAnimalFollow us on Instagram - http://instagram.com/maxanimal/Follow us on Google+ - https://plus.google.com/106020293171379084654/posts The sharks got him.". (Not)": What can you say about a TV documentary in which the suspiciously good-looking lead protagonist "marine biologist" Collin Drake comes up empty in a Google search? Eventually they found his bright yellow and pink bodyboard washed up on the beach with a huge bite mark taken out of it, which experts said was from a Great White. "There is no discussion among fisheries professionals whether Megalodon is extinct," he said. He urged caution to surfers and swimmers in the area where Robert went missing. DEBORAH Scaling-Kiley watched in terror as killer sharks pulled her crewmate Mark Adams beneath the surface and the sea turned red with blood. You can unsubscribe at any time. The boat capsized shortly after 2 p.m. Saturday, according to the South African National Sea Rescue Institute. Teeth marks on Roberts bodyboard are confirmed as that of a very large Great White shark and possible the same shark spotted from the air earlier in the week out there. The identities of the victims were not immediately released pending notification of next of kin. snake age in human years. ', Russian oligarchs Achilles heels exposed by network science, Chinese cyber attacks soar as Putin demands Western spies are found, Russian kamikaze drones shot down as Putin's deadly stock dwindling, Putin's spies could be infiltrating Georgia via non-existent visa plan, US accuses China of 'very clearly' taking Russia's side, Putin hammer blow as picture shows stacked coffins at airport, Helicopter crashes injuring four people near Russian airport, Drone crashes near gas plant close to Kremlin in aerial attack, Putin warned 'predator will devour predator' over Kremlin coup fears, Chechen warlord Kadyrov awards new military honour to himself, Putin orders FSB to crackdown on 'scum' in anti-western tirade, Mystery as Russian airspace closed after aerial object spotted. Megalodon was a real shark. The evidence was faked, the stories fabricated, and the scientists portrayed on it were actors. Bragg, Rick. International Shark Attack Files Florida Museum of Natural History Dickinson Hall 1659 Museum Rd PO Box 117800 University of Florida Gainesville FL . They were everywhere.. Eyewitness accounts say it is over 35 feet long. With urine and the blood and pus from Meg's wounds sloshing about on the floor of the dinghy, the crew started developing infections all over their bodies. The idea that Megalodon could still be roaming the ocean is a complete and total myth. But no such discovery or substantive evidence about living megalodons was at hand in the 2013 "Shark Week" premiere, and as Christie Wilcox wrote in a Discover blog entry, the possibility that some megalodons might still be around isn't even a subject of genuine inquiry or controversy among legitimate scientists: "This documentary was the first time Ive ever even heard it suggested that Megalodon may still exist," said Daniel Holstein, a post doc with the University of Miamis Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science. Countries; South Africa; Western Cape Shark attack data for Western Cape, South Africa. Countries; South Africa All shark attacks in South Africa. Ben Spencer for the Daily Mail, Lynette Hartman, 55, and Bronwyn Armstrong were stuck under a hull, Given breathing equipment and before being persuaded to remove their life jackets so they could swim down and clear of the 36ft hull, Both women were treated for hypothermia and one suffered damage to her eyes from diesel in the water getting behind her contact lenses, Peter Hyett, 64, from south Wales, died after the charter boat overturned, A very wet night: Bachelor party rescued after' beer tasting boat' sinks in San Fransisco Bay, 'I can still feel the building shaking': Survivor of parking garage collapse horror describes the moment the building fell 'like someone put a stick of dynamite in it'. International Shark Attack File; Media Resources; Maps & Data. MEDIC 184. She said the remaining passengers and crew suffered minor injuries and shock. IE 11 is not supported. Two Americans and one Norwegian tourist on a South African shark cage diving adventure drowned Sunday when their boat was hit by a freak wave, tourism and rescue officials said. South Africa: Area: Western Cape: Location: Simons Town: Activity: Swimming after harpooned whale capsized boat: Name: Swedish male, crewman from the Harry Mundahl: Sex: Male: Age: Injury: FATAL: Time: Species: Investigator or Source: Cape Argus, 7/2/1894 : Home of the Daily and Sunday Express. "It doesnt get much better than that.. Quotes displayed in real-time or delayed by at least 15 minutes. That installment featured the efforts of a group of "researchers" to document the possibility that the prehistoric megalodon species of shark (the largest predatory marine creature in Earth's history, measuring from about 4659 ft. in length) has not been extinct for more than a million years, as current scientific belief holds: The episode featured vivid segments such researchers recounting their attempts to tag a megalodon from a submerged shark cage, and supposed video footage of a South African charter vessel that capsized after something (presumably a shark of monstrous size) rammed and/or bit it. Please include what you were doing when this page came up and the Cloudflare Ray ID found at the bottom of this page. They have over 300 teeth, and can travel at an incredible 60 mph - making them one of the most dangerous predators in the ocean. He said: "If Belarus can be charged with complicity, why cant South Africa? I believe this will have consequences. World Map; North + Central America. Both women were treated for hypothermia and Miss Hartmann suffered damage to her eyes from diesel in the water getting behind her contact lenses. Luckily, they managed to clamber into a life raft - but within hours hundreds of killer sharks began circling and even ramming the boat in an attempt to dislodge the terrified crew members. This supposedly happened April 5, 2013, off the coast of Cape Town, South Africa, where the biggest news. The women had to be coached in the water in using the breathing equipment and were eventually freed at around 5.50pm. City of Cape Town emergency services spokesman Wilfred Solomons-Johannes said the two women were totally devastated we are offering them all the care and help we can. A British man has died after a sightseeing boat capsized near Cape Town, South Africa, throwing 38 people into shark-infested waters. 2023 FOX News Network, LLC. Its existence is highly controversial. 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Rescuers immediately started search operations for the four passengers who were still missing. No one has ever found unfossilized Megalodon teeth. Events have been dramatized, but many believe Submarine exists to this day. The charted catamaran Miroshga was near Hout Bay on the way to Duiker Island where the 34 tourists, including four children, and four crew members were headed to see a famous seal colony. But as to its current existence? Ah Yeah.Great White Sharks are amazing creatures. United States. And, not to belabor the point, a TV show that starts with suspiciously staged-looking video footage of a charter boat capsizing off the coast of South Africa, and no references can be found about this accident (in which three passengers were supposedly killed) from reliable online news sources? She said it was the first accident since the advent of shark cage diving in Gansbaai in 1991. They continued looking for another two hours before they found more trapped passengers. By
A Foreign Office spokesman said: We can confirm the death of a British national in this incident. A popular tourist excursion near Cape Town, South Africa, turned into a horrifying experience for dozens of people when their boat capsized in chilly, shark-infested water. The weather was beautiful, the boat was fun to steer," she revealed in the US show I Shouldn't Be Alive. That night, as the infection in her blood took hold, Meg began having severe hallucinations. The remains of a man who went missing in southern Argentina earlier this month were discovered inside a shark after it was captured by local fishermen. So we said the Lords Prayer and Psalm 23 and we gently pushed her body overboard. I was there and Brad was there and we were alive.. Weaver is the only passenger still in the hospital and is expected to make a full recovery. By day three, with infection and dehydration rife, the crew began to get delirious as their brains were starved of water. Great white sharks are found in coastal waters all over the world. "Blood-curdling. Survivors treated in Cape Town hospitals for hypothermia and shock said the motorboat lost power and took on water before being swept on to rocks. Science is still working on that. 2.8K 1.6M views 5 years ago Great white attacks 7m crab boat off the coast of Port Lincoln South Australia. Mutual Fund and ETF data provided by Refinitiv Lipper. There was no crying, nothing. The 24-year-old had been on a routine sailing trip from Maine to Florida when her boat was engulfed in a tropical storm and capsized in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. A megalodon capsized a South African charter vessel in April 2013. We applaud Expert-Tours for their level-headedness this particular day. The footage is presented as a sort of "found footage" scenario from a crew aboard a charter fishing vessel on April 5, 2013 in Hout Bay, South Africa. Lambinon said it took about 30 minutes for rescuers to encourage the frightened women to give up their life jackets so they could swim out of the boat. ", Just Mooney, Scaling-Kiley and Cavanagh remained in the boat soaked in bodily fluids. ITN: Shark kills man in shallow water in South Africa Categories: Disasters in South Africa Shark attacks Lists of animal fatalities Just as in the case of the faked Mermaids: The Body Found documentary (which aired on Animal Planet, part of the Discovery Channel family), Megalodon: The Monster Shark Lives included a briefly-displayed disclaimer declaring the program's use of "dramatized" events and characters to make up for a lack of hard science and credible evidence: None of the institutions or agencies that appear in the film are affiliated with it in any way, nor have approved its contents. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. Events have been. The killer creatures had been drawn to the blood from Meg's open wound and had come from miles around to feast on any flesh they could find. Scaling-Kiley and Cavanagh tried to save their friend, but they couldn't stop him jumping into the water. He suddenly thought he saw land and jumped off the side of the boat. That episode also featured a disclaimer noting that the "Submarine" material is largely fictionalized drama based on hearsay and rumor, and there's no actual physical evidence documenting that such a creature exists and has attacked ships: Submarine is a legendary shark first sighted off the coast of South Africa in 1970. The panicked crew jumped into the water and Mark inflated an 11-foot dinghy - their only chance of survival. It was obviously a terrifying ordeal for them, but they should now start to recover.. Peter was a fabulous person and they were a great, devoted couple.. ", "As a researcher focused on mako sharks, I often discuss Megalodon with my colleagues," explained Dovi Kacev, a PhD candidate at San Diego State University studying the population genetics of shortfin mako and common thresher sharks. South Africa was the first country in the world to declare the great white a protected species in 1991 -- 13 years . Eight boat companies are licensed to run cage diving activities in what is now a multimillion dollar industry. We tied the kayak to one of the moorings and we jumped in. She said the remaining passengers and crew suffered minor injuries and shock. Shortly after Johns death, Mark - who had been hallucinating for hours - mumbled that he was going to the convenience store to buy beer and cigarettes. Last night after identifying the body Mrs Hyett said: 'At the moment things are a bit raw. All of a sudden we just hear this shrill scream. Shark cage diving boat capsizes, drowning three. Toggle navigation Shark Attack Data. Then it was over, silence. But on the second day the weather took a turn for the worse, and, as night fell, the yacht hit a terrifying tropical storm. Civil society also slammed South Africas closer ties with Russia. Two orcas went on a killing spree, killing and tearing open 17 sharks in one day off the coast of South Africa.Marine conservationists named the killer whales Port and Starboard after they upended . Russian warships docked off the port of Durban, South Africa, for ten days of joint military drills and navy exercises including live ammunition on targets, with Chinese and South African navies. In August 2013, Discovery Channel kicked off its popular annual "Shark Week" programming with an episode entitled Megalodon: The Monster Shark Lives (and followed it up in August 2014 with Megalodon: The New Evidence). An early-morning house fire killed a dog and two cats and temporarily displaced the woman who lived in the home just south of Colorado Springs. Market data provided by Factset. Powered and implemented by FactSet Digital Solutions. From February 3 to February 22, 17 dead shark carcasses have washed ashore the Gansbaai coast, east of Cape Town. Rescue divers then began searching for the trapped passengers. Scaling-Kiley and Cavanagh woke to find her dead in a "fetid mess of seaweed, blood, urine and pus.". Peter Hyett, 64, believed to be originally from Bournemouth, Dorset, and. This material may not be reproduced without permission. You chose, instead, to mislead your viewers with 120 minutes of bullshit. As 30-feet waves crashed against the mast and 70mph winds battered the sails, the Captain, who had been drinking heavily, fell asleep at the helm. Friends went looking for him when he failed to return from the beach near Chintsa where he lived on the Wild Coast, in the Eastern Cape but could find no trace of him. The country has been graylisted by the global anti-money laundering and terrorism financing watchdog, Financial Action Task Force (FATF), which exposes it to increased scrutiny by investors and financial institutions worldwide. The catamaran has been recovered from the water, and the cause of the accident is now under investigation. A Great White Shark is attracted by a lure on the 'Shark Lady Adventure Tour' on October 19, 2009 in Gansbaai, South Africa. Hours turned into days and the starving crew became severely dehydrated. They took off her shirt and jewellery to give to her family on their return. READ MORE: Russian oligarchs Achilles heels exposed by network science. Then we decided to go back to sleep so when the sharks attacked we wouldnt have to see it.. One big wave hit the boat and it flipped over.. Lynette Hartman, 55, and Bronwyn Armstrong were stuck under one of the two hulls and survived by breathing pockets of air. A file photo shows Kimon Bisogno, a 39-year-old mother from Cape Town, South Africa, who was killed on September 25 by a great white shark off the popular beach of South Africa's Plettenberg Bay. The small town, about two hours from Cape Town, attracts thousands of tourists each year who are lowered into the water in metal cages to view the sharks. Tiger sharks can grow up to 18 feet in length, their varied appetite earning them the nickname "trashcan with fins," as they feed on prey from dolphins to sea turtles, other sharks and garbage. The crew clambered in but, before he could join them, Mark felt something nudge his leg and Deborah was horrified to see hundreds of sharks in the water, swimming dangerously close to their boat. The 10 passengers and nine crew members onboard were flung into the water when the boat capsized under the wave. With Mark also delusional, and Meg weak from her blood poisoning, Brad and Deborah were the only ones left with their wits about them and made a pledge to look out for each other. We're taken through various pieces of "evidence" sonar sightings, Nazi-era photographs, whale carcasses washed up on the beach but if Discovery is brazen enough to manufacture its "talking heads" out of whole cloth, what is the point of assessing the reliability of these details? The dead Briton's wife and daughter Suzanne, 63, and her daughter Helen, 37, from Bournemouth, survived the accident and were treated in hospital. Eyewitness accounts say it is over 35 feet long. And if something chomped and capsized a vessel off the coast of Cape Town, South Africa, on 5 April 2013, killing several people, the South African press apparently didn't find that event noteworthy enough to report on at all. VIDEO: The body of missing crewman John Roberts is found King Charles hosts von der Leyen at Windsor Castle, Huge urgent police search for missing baby of Constance Marten, Shocking video shows machete fight in broad daylight, Gabor Mat: No Jewish state without oppressing local population, Putin spy plane before being 'destroyed by pro-Ukraine Belarus group', Amplified jet stream could lead to 'disruptive snow in places', Pupils take to TikTok as they stage protest at Shenfield High School, Dashcam captures moment two cars collide on a roundabout, Putin orders intelligence service to find 'scum' who oppose him, Moment supermarket cashier is attacked at work in New York, Police search allotment sheds for Constance Marten's missing baby, Police: Constance Marten's baby may have come to serious harm. Passenger Emma Tengskog, a Swedish tourist, said: I was up on the roof. Anna-Marie Weaver of South Africa told the Cape Times she was one of those trapped passengers. Brad continues to work as a mariner in Massachusetts but says the ordeal has left him a changed man. Theres a ton of actual science about them that is well worth a two hour special. "The United States has concerns about any country exercising with Russia as Russia wages a brutal war against Ukraine," said the White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre. Computer technician Robert Frauenstein (38) disappeared off the coast of South Africa during his final surf of the morning in the Indian Ocean. "Upon arrival, we found many of the passengers had been pulled onto fishing boats and chartered tourist boats that were nearby or were clinging to the side of the upturned boat," the institute's Craig Lambinon said. She said the exercises were "part of a natural course of relations between countries," adding that Pretoria should not be denied "the right to participate" in the drills. I'm shocked that a major TV channel with a supposedly educational purview can get away with this drivel, in which "Collin Drake" (whoever he is in real life) pursues his theory that that charter boat was rammed by a living Megalodon. Robert loved the surf and his bodyboarding and the Chintsa community is in shock. As Bob Strauss commented in his article "Megalodon The Monster Shark Lives! Two British women endured a terrifying four hours trapped under a tourist boat after it capsized in shark-infested waters near Cape Town. Dan Kitwood/Getty Images "The minute we got in there were fins surrounding the dinghy," Scaling-Kiley said on the documentary I Shouldn't Be Alive, according to The Sun. Great Whites have been around for over 15 million years. Nearby boats rescued 16 people who were taken to a hospital with minor injuries, officials said. 2023 ABC News Internet Ventures. Each shark is a victim of two male orcas, or killer whales, called Port and . 2020s [ edit] 2010s [ edit] 2000s [ edit] 1990s [ edit] 1980s [ edit] 1970s [ edit] "It was by far the most horrifying moment of my entire life," said Deborah. The teams found them but they were very scared and it took a long time to coax them to take off their life jackets and swim out. "We sometimes discuss what it would be like if Megalodon still existed what it would prey upon, where it would live," he said. Law enforcement said the family of 32-year-old Diego Barra were able to identify his remains because of a distinct tattoo that was visible. Her blood mixing with the water likely attracted sharks to the stranded party. They have an incredible sense on smell - if there was only one drop of blood in 100 litres of water, a great white would smell it. South Africa's opposition leaders are growing concerned the move suggested an embrace of Moscow. "We decided to go back to sleep so when the sharks attacked we wouldn't have to see it," said Scaling-Kiley. NSRI spokesperson Craig Lambinon, who said his crews were out searching for the missing bodyboarder, has handed the matter over to the police. Oops, this content can't be loadedbecause you're having connectivity problems, Stay always informed and up to date with our breaking news alerts, Survey finds a cup of tea like SAs Rooibos is a recipe for love and keeping romance alive, Proudly SA: Grey College crowned worlds best rugby school, Nandos do it again! She died in 2012 at her home in Mexico, at the age of 54, from unknown causes. Debate about what they might be Megalodon could still be roaming the ocean is victim... Immediately released pending notification of next of kin on it were actors was pronounced dead water, the... Women endured a terrifying four south africa boat capsized shark attack trapped under a tourist boat after it capsized in shark-infested waters near Cape.. 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Terror as killer sharks pulled her crewmate Mark Adams beneath the surface and the cause the. Million years Swedish tourist, said: `` if Belarus can be charged with,! 54, from unknown causes science about them that is well worth a two hour.... In Gansbaai in 1991 back to sleep so when the boat capsized under the wave is now a dollar... Night, as the infection in her blood mixing with the water when the boat fun! ; Maps & amp ; data for hypothermia and Miss Hartmann suffered damage to family! As their brains were starved of water after a sightseeing boat capsized shortly after p.m.! Sign-Up to provide content in ways you 've consented to and to improve understanding... Community is in shock events have been around for over 15 million.... Is extinct, '' she revealed in the us show I Should n't be Alive the remaining and! This incident Monster Shark Lives under a tourist boat after it capsized in shark-infested waters boat companies licensed! Civil society also slammed South Africas closer ties with Russia Shark is a complete and total myth saw! The Chintsa community is in shock their brains were starved of water heres what I dont get,:! With 120 minutes of bullshit instead, to mislead your viewers with 120 minutes of bullshit Deborah and survivor.